Mr. SCHEUER. I hope it will not happen. We do welcome your testimony.

We did have one critical witness on the House side. That was a white who felt the ongoing grassroots efforts, the pitiful attempts as you characterize them, to do this job at the local level would suffer during the year that a commission might be working, that they would have difficulty raising funds, getting volunteers. He also felt that the Federal Government, on the basis of its past performance, could not be trusted to deal even-handedly and fairly and thoughtfully and creatively with this problem and he felt it was a "private affair," this problem of identity and image was a private affair which the Negro community had to handle with its own leadership and within the confines of the Negro community without any outside interference from whites.

Do you disagree or agree with this criticism?

Mr. HOBSON. There are certain questions which come up in the black community which have to be dealt with by black men. But I happen to be one black power advocate that does not go along with the idea that we can do it all by ourselves. I happen to know some Americans who are revolutionary who are interested in change, some inside Government, some outside Government. I have to identify those people on the basis of their records and the history of their struggles. I think that these men meanwhile who say this, but I think that they may not grasp the gravity and the size of such a problem and they may not realize even the problem of coordination.

So I would say as I said in the beginning here, that everybody who wants to make a contribution to bringing about the truth and justice, by all means, let them do it. I think there is room here for everybody.

We have some doctrinary white liberals and we have some pasteurized Negroes who are in this, some because they have guilt feelings and others because they want jobs and so on. I think there is a danger that if you turn this job over to that kind of individual, the people, the black power people and the people in the community will fall away, because it will be the same old tableau or a variation on the same old theme. But I see no reason why a group like this in all honesty could not try to integrate our history into American history and do it on an honest basis. That is not even a pertinent question, as far as I see it.

Mr. SCHEUER. Thank you for your stimulating testimony.

Senator PELL. Thank you. I hope you will follow the process as the bill moves along. I appreciate your testimony very much. Is Mr. Ronald Bailey in the audience?

STATEMENT OF RONALD BAILEY, TREASURER, BLACK STUDENTS' ALLIANCE, MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY, EAST LANSING, MICH.

Mr. BAILEY. My name is Ron Bailey. I am treasurer of the Black Student's Alliance at Michigan State University, although I do not speak in any official capacity.

It is a great pleasure to appear before your subcommittee, Senator Pell, even though I must admit that my remarks have been rather hurriedly organized in the last few minutes, because I feel strongly that there is some place in this hearing for a statement by black college

students. I want to address the importance of Afro-American history and the possible significance of the commission you propose from the standpoint of a college student.

My remarks are rather brief and with your permission, I would like to extend them for inclusion in the record.

One cannot overestimate the importance of black history to the American scene. I am particularly interested in the relationship of black history to college students. As one surveys the recent protests on black campuses throughout the South and among black students of predominantly white campuses in the North, one pervading demand is seen throughout the demand for the inclusion of those facts which have been distorted, either through commission or omission, into the curriculums of our schools-which I consider to be whitewashed-to make them truly reflect the impact of the Afro-American experience. Mr. Hobson's remarks are illustrative of this point. A thorough reading of black history, including a careful analysis of the ideological debate between W. E. B. DuBois, perhaps the foremost black thinker and Booker T. Washington, the eminent black educationist, will reveal that Mr. Washington is not a prize Tom, but rather a mere product of the prevailing circumstances of his times.

Next, I simply would like to state that I believe the commission would be well received among black college students as long as one word is kept in mind. That word is "relevance." Your commission must truly reflect the aspirations of black Americans as they themselves strive diligently to construct their history that has been ruthlessly torn asunder for one reason or another. This relevance would be reflected in staffing, as Mr. Hobson has stated, to include the widest possible spectrum of those sincerely interested in the study of black history.

Secondly, the Commission should seek out those efforts presently being engaged in by the black community and offer them the types of support, mainly financial, that will assure them of their ultimate success. This consideration is wholly in line with the emphasis on selfassertion now prevalent among black Americans and should be recognized as the force that will ultimately decide the respect that is to be given to black Americans.

Thank you.

Senator PELL. Thank you very much, Mr. Bailey.

Let me ask you this question of the name. Should it be called the Commission on Negro History and Culture or the Commission on Black History and Culture?

Mr. BAILEY. I think you must realize the historical implications of the controversy over the names Negro or black, Afro-American, and the like. Maybe hearings are necessary on the naming of your commission. When somebody says Negro, certain things are brought to mind immediately, mainly the period starting from slavery onward, a period that is still a badge of shame for many black Americans because it is a period characterized by extreme degradation, self-rejection, and really self-destruction. But to someone who has studied black history, the name "Afro-American" points out somethingdeeper roots, attempts to go back to Africa where black Americans canie from originally, and to reestablish those roots and bridge the gap in the recording of the Afro-American experience. This should

be reflected in the commission. I do not think your commission should concern itself only with the American experience of the black American. It should probe further and attempt to point out those facets of the African background that have great relevance to understanding the position of black Americans today. If this is done, the results will surprise almost as many black Americans as whites.

Senator PELL. What would be your recommendation for the name of a commission?

Mr. BAILEY. I would not recommend that it be called the "Commission on Negro History and Culture." I think "Afro-American" would be most in keeping with the purposes that the commission hopes

to serve.

I think, however, that the name should be a reflection of majority opinion, not only of black leadership but of the masses of black people. Senator PELL. The only way we are going to get an opinion is by asking the witnesses.

Mr. BAILEY. That is just this hearing. Maybe a questionnaire to a scientifically chosen sample of black Americans would be in order. Senator PELL. Thank you.

Senator Williams, do you have any questions?

Senator WILLIAMS. I am not quite clear on the last response.
What does the word "Negro" connote to you?

Mr. BAILEY. To me it connotes one thing. I have been reading black history so I can take the word "Negro" and fit it into context and realize that it was given to the slaves brought over as a general something to call them.

Senator WILLIAMS. What does the word "Negro" mean, Mr. Bailey? Mr. BAILEY. The word "Negro" comes from the Spanish word meaning "black." That is important, but most people do not realize that. Most people take the word "Negro" and fit it to the period of slavery and then the word "Negro" means somebody who has been kept down, worked hard, given nothing, not allowed to develop his potential-all negative connotations. It is interesting that also attached to this period-and the word "Negro"-is the stereotyped description of Sambo: lazy, shiftless, stupid, and totally unconcerned about his degraded condition. This negativism is the main reason for the stress on words like "black" and "Afro-American." They attempt to wipe out the deleterious notions of the word "Negro" and the period of slavery and to instill, especially in young black people, something of a more positive image of self-an image that has been proven to be essential in the development of one's full potential.

When you say "Afro-American," you go back to Africa-not the barbaric Africa of wild savages, popular still in some of our textbooks, but the Africa that truly reflects to conditions from which black Americans were ruthlessly snatched. You read of a rich cultural heritage, complex socio-political and economic systems, and the like. You say "black" and you think today of the more progressive stance toward obtaining rights guaranteed to every citizen, not only in recent years, but in the periods where Nat Turner, Denmark Vesey, Frederick Douglass, and countless others raised their voices in protest over America's racist practices. But the word "Negro" conjures up more negative thoughts than positive ones, and because it was a name assigned to black Americans by whites-mainly in the interest of expediency-it

can never have a fully positive connotation, at least not for me. This has been quite unfortunate for the development of black Americans, I think.

Senator WILLIAMS. Unfortunately, I could not be here through your entire testimony. But I think he made a good suggestion on the AfroAmerican.

I have a statement I would like to include in the record at this point. Senator PELL. With no objection, so ordered.

(The statement referred to follows:)

STATEMENT OF HON. HARRISON A. WILLIAMS, JR., A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY

Senator WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is indeed most refreshing to hear this type of blunt and forthright testimony on a subject which has for too long been allowed to lie dormant. I had always thought that our children were receiving an all encompassing education; however, it is now clear that such is not the case.

Until recently there was little discussion of the role played by American Negroes in the development of our country and what information was available was known to a few scholars and was not used as instructional material.

This situation I speak of is changing, but is there enough change and is it at a speed which is acceptable? Within the last year, this committee heard testimony from a man who was fired from his teaching position for including Negro-oriented material. The suburbs around Washington are only now recognizing the need for change in instructional material.

It is fitting to note at this point that part I of the CBS News TV show, "Of Black America-Black History Lost, Stolen, or Strayed," will be rebroadcast this evening at 10 p.m.

Chairman Pell and the sponsors of this bill are to be congratulated for this hearing today.

Senator PELL. Congressman Scheuer?

Mr. SCHEUER. I have very much appreciated your testimony. I think it was great that we heard from a young black, a young Afro-American. It helps us old fellows in the 40 years to breach the generation gap. I was most interested in your testimony.

Senator WILLIAMS. You work with the Joint Economic Committee? Mr. BAILEY. Yes; I am an intern this summer.

Senator WILLIAMS. You go to tht University of Michigan?

Mr. BAILEY. NO; Michigan State University.

Senator WILLIAMS. Obviously, you are a valued member of that staff. This is an intern program?

Mr. BAILEY. Yes, Senator Williams.

Senator WILLIAMS. Obviously, you are a valued member of the staff of that committee.

Where are you from?

Mr. BAILEY. Originally? Claxton, Ga.

Senator WILLIAMS. Your home is where?

Mr. BAILEY. Claxton, Ga.

Senator WILLIAMS. I wish I had heard all of your statement, but I will read it in the record.

Mr. BAILEY. My statement was rather short, because I wrote it in the last 4 minutes, but I would like permission to extend it in the record. Senator PELL. Thank you very, very much, Mr. Bailey.

(The material referred to follows:)

PREPARED STATEMENT OF RONALD BAILEY, TREASURER, BLACK STUDENTS' ALLIANCE, MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY, EAST LANSING, MICHIGAN

Mr. Chairman and members of the Subcommittee, I am deeply appreciative of the opportunity to offer a statement in support of S. 2979, establishing a Commission of Negro History and Culture. I wish to state initially that reference to my position as treasurer and as a member of the Steering Committee of the Black Students' Alliance at Michigan State is made solely for purposes of identification. My comments should be construed as representing no other opinion but my own. Although I represent no group opinion, I do feel, however, that my present status as a college student is of some uniqueness in this hearing.

It is seemingly customary to mention a few personal facts. I do so only for the purpose of providing a biographical context in which the comments that follow may be clearly understood. I am twenty years old, a senior at Michigan State, and a liberal arts major, with an economics concentration. I have plans to enter law school in 1969. I am a native of Claxton, Georgia, and a graduate of Evans County High School, very small and all black.

I mention these facts because it might be of interest to the Subcommittee that my deep interest in black history and culture is certainly not a scholarly one but one that is rooted in, and conditioned by, the fact of my blackness.

The sponsors of this bill, S. 2979, are to be congratulated on the timeliness of their efforts. Interest in black history and culture in America is certainly at a high point. This has been most recently demonstrated by the decision of the U.S. Riot Commission to spend considerable time during its hearings on the topic of black history as it relates to the events of today. Manifestations of black selfhood and identification among young and old are certainly almost wholly responsible for this rising tide of interest. In an attempt at conciseness, I wish to submit three articles to illustrate the contextual framework in which current discussions of Afro-American history and culture occur. The series appeared in the Michigan State News during Negro History Week, February 14, 15, and 16, 1968. Their titles were "Point of View: Accent on Fact Needed," "Closing America's History Gap," and "What Is To Be Done." I am also submitting a paper that will discuss some significant effects of the study of black history.

My comments on the proposed legislation consist of several observations that I feel should be made and a discussion of the various arguments that might be used for and against the bill.

The Committee should be informed, although I am sure that my doing so is only a reiteration, that these efforts in this field, are by no means the first, and certainly not the most exhaustive. Recognition of this fact will be a key factor in the Commission's acceptance by the black community. Black Americans have long been interested in the study and teaching of their history. This interest found expression most notably in the founding of the Association for the Study of Negro Life and History by Dr. Carter G. Woodson in 1915.

Other equally noble efforts have followed, especially the International AfroAmerican Museum, Inc., with which I have had contact in Michigan. I mention this point because the current stress on self-assertion in the black community categorically rules out any undertaking that is not cognizant of these black initiated efforts. I feel this rejection is justifiable, as I will discuss below.

The Committee should also be made aware that the probable effects of this bill and the proposed Commission on easing the current state of social unrest is more than likely to be infinitely small and certainly not immediately discernible. Although I am convinced that, as enlightened sponsors of the bill, you view it as only an initial step toward righting the many wrongs in the recording of America's history, many of your colleagues might choose to thrust upon S. 2979 the heavy burden that should more be borne by all-out efforts to restructure the fabric of urban society. Those who do are likely to be quite disappointed.

It cannot be denied, in my opinion, that the Commission you propose has great potential. Perhaps the strongest argument for its establishment is rooted in the prestige that is attached to Presidentially-appointed Commissions. This enhances their access to needed sources of information, primarily, but serves a far more